In the context of the regional expansion of Aviacionline, our co-founder and Editorial Director, Pablo Díaz, had the opportunity to interview Victor de la Vela, Director of Airbus Defence and Space for Latin America.
It was an extensive talk that covered a wide variety of topics such as Airbus’ position in the region, collaborations in the industry, the role of the C295 and A330 MRTT and unmanned aircraft, among many others. We invite you to read it and learn a little more about the position of one of the largest manufacturers in the world.
-How do you see Airbus positioning in the defense business in Latin America?
-We have a leadership position in what is defense and space in Latin America. Our first aircraft date back to the 70s and since then we have contact practically in all countries and a very important fleet in service. We have 40 C295s, 20 CN235s and 49 C212s. The company provides support to all of them, so we have a very fluid relationship with all clients.
We are not only talking about airplanes, but we also have a series of satellites and systems that are in operation, such as the situation in Chile with FASat and Peru with PeruSat 1. Also the space part is an important region for us where we have good presence and also a very good relationship with sub clients.
– Are there projections in the future of new businesses in the region regarding space?
-Our strategy is to remain aggressive in the region. Recently in Chile the contest was decided, for which we did not have the necessary requirements to win it, but we see many possibilities in Colombia and Perú. Both countries in which we hope to have observation and communication satellites soon.
We are very present in the Latin American market and we will continue to offer our best services, not only in satellites but also in the market of our Pléiades constellation and access to high resolution satellite images. This gives our clients the possibility of having a fully sovereign system or a shared system with Airbus where they can decide the number of images and where they want to obtain them. This flexibility positions us in an optimal way to be present in the Latin American market.
-I ask you about C295: the pandemic exposed several and very particular needs that were always there but are now being augmented. One of them was the need for tactical transport adaptable to sanitary. In Argentina we personally experience it because of the limited availability of Hercules transport and smaller aircraft. How do you see the C295 in the future of Latin America and the A400M to cover these functions?
– The pandemic has made all the armies and defense ministries reassess their operational needs, which have been focused in favor of civil society. We have seen the operation of our aircraft not only in health care but also in doctors, patients and everything necessary to face this situation. From Airbus we see a change in our aircraft that were previously used only militarily and now have an image of support to civil society as a fundamental tool to help citizens both in pandemics and in situations of natural disasters and emergencies. Personally, I believe that it is a fundamental tool and that it will lead to a re-evaluation of the need to have this type of aircraft in the future.
We have all seen the C295, CN235 and C212 in operation, each in its own way, throughout Latin America. We have seen it in Colombia, Brazil and Argentina.
The C295 has an operational guarantee that no other aircraft offers on the market and offers a very affordable flight price. By comparison, the Hercules has much higher operating costs. The C295 in this sense shows itself as a consolidated leader in the market, which, from what we see and intuit, in the coming years will continue to join the Latin American market not only with the customers it operates but also with new ones.
The A400M is a different product, both because of its size and its design, but that I consider it essential for the armed forces, especially for Latin America due to the enormous extensions of territory, compared to European distances. This plane, due to its range, can travel those distances. For example, for Argentina with its operations in Antarctica, the A400M would be essential because it guarantees the security that these operations can be carried out effectively.
What I was saying is that the C295 has priority in this valorization of defense elements but the A400M we see it in the medium term in Latin America without doubts.
-Regarding the A330 MRTT, in Europe exist the multinational fleets. Do you think something like this is possible in the region?
-In Europe there is a very different political dynamic from the one we see in Latin America regarding to defense, they try to coordinate the defense actions much more than in here. Although there is still much to do, we are on the way. There is a lot of harmony and from there the MMEF program arises, in which countries buy MRTT flight hours, they are totalized and based on that a number of planes that must be operated come out. This whole process is carried out by an European agency.
In Latin America we are a bit far from that scenario but for me it is not unreasonable to have something similar to what we have just commented. Perhaps with other actors or with another type of approach, but it is something that we are analyzing and seeing if it is possible to introduce this type of plane, more unaffordable due to its cost, offering a kind of consortium.
I would not see it so much in the A330 MRTT because it is a multi role, it has a thousand uses and it is an aircraft that you would see in different armed forces because it can be used both for in-flight refueling and for troop transport or VIP authorities. It has such a wide range of possibilities that I see it more in a private owner. Perhaps something similar could be seen in the A400M or in fire-fighting schemes, which already existed in the region but did not prosper.
-Returning to the A330 MRTT, in the region we see that there are few existing means of refueling in flight and generally tend to be old, for example the KC 135 fighters that Colombia has or even the limited refueling capacity of the Argentinian Air Force with the Hercules, do you see a market for the A330 MRTT?
-Absolutely. What we have to see is the timing of that market, but I see that there is a market for the MRTT. There is a need for refueling for combat aircraft, we see it in Brazil, we know that in Colombia we have a future program to replace the Kfir. In addition to this clear need, and as we mentioned earlier, the MRTT is a multi-role aircraft. We have seen it in Europe transporting sick people or medical cargo from China. It is an aircraft that has many types of operations where it can be applied and that we will see in Latin America, but in the medium term. It is not an airplane for everyone, but I do believe – and I hope – that it is an airplane that the great Latin American countries will choose.
-You mentioned that there is a program in which you are working to replace the Kfir from Colombia, the idea is to offer the first generation Eurofighter?
-Yes. We understand that the pandemic is also going to play a role because obviously budgets are going to suffer in some way, but we are working hand by hand with the Colombian government to support them in whatever decision they make. In this sense, Airbus has been a partner of Colombia for more than 30 years. What we offer with the Eurofighter, that besides being a very high-tech aircraft, represents significant industrial cooperation possibilities and this is a great differentiation from other offerings.
We have already worked on the development of the Colombian aeronautical industry and an aircraft of this style would promote this development, also a strengthening of the ties between Colombia and Spain and of course the interoperability of these aircraft within the framework of NATO. So it should be noted that this operation we are talking about would be a government-to-government contract between Colombia and Spain, with which we are somehow subject to that framework and the talks continue.
We basically have 3 options, one option is the latest generation aircraft that is the new Tranche 3 with the latest innovations that have been introduced in the Eurofighter, but as you know, it is an aircraft that is in continuous development. The last thing that has been introduced was the famous E-Scan.
To recap, we offered Tranche 3 to Colombia as a new plane and then there were also two more affordable options, because we understand that it is an expensive plane. One was to opt for the aircraft options of Tranche 1, modernizating the aircraft of the Spanish Air Force towards the Colombian Air Force which is very close to Tranche 3. And the third option was the leasing of these planes of the Trancha 1. All of this is on the table, but obviously we are a little subject to the conversations between the governments that are still going on and that we will support whatever the decision is.
-Based on the Argentinian geopolitical and geostrategic reality and with the existing hypothesis of the conflict with the United Kingdom, it is said that they will never sell an Eurofighter to Argentina. Are there any real restrictions on that offer?
-As real restrictions, we have to understand that the United Kingdom imposes a restriction on their country’s equipment in terms of sales to Argentina, extended to all equipments, not just Eurofighters. When Spain offers it we have to have the approval of the United Kingdom. So when we talk about the Eurofighter offer, we must understand that it has a United Kingdom component and that in this eventual offer there is no limitation regarding this contract, but that limitation does exist. There is a limitation regarding the export licenses of English equipment and it is always a political agreement, but in the case of the Eurofighter we understand that it is on the right track and we have not had any restrictions in this regard.
-Were there any offers that Airbus has made to the Argentinian Government regarding the renewal of its fleet that includes Eurofighters?
-We have to know a little about the history of Argentina to understand. We have been in Argentina for more than 30 years, in fact we have an office in the country and we are delighted to support the Argentinian Government. Times of economic difficulty have passed, and at the moment they continue to pass, and therefore we have had conversations but we have not been able to materialize anything because the economic funds were not really insured, the financing was very complex and we had a rather complicated scenario to be able to move forward . I believe that with the approval of the Argentine National Defense Fund (FONDEF) and the renegotiation of the national debt, a new framework is opened to be able to carry out a renewal of military materials. I speak in general, not only about the aerospace part, which is the one that corresponds the most to us. I understand that right now both the Ministry of Defense and the Armed Forces are evaluating the priorities that can be addressed with this framework with the FONDEF approval.
We keep listening to any request and try to be close to our clients, in this case the Argentinian Government and its Armed Forces. They are currently operating the C212s, we continue to support them and we are open to any discussion which, I believe, at this time the possible scenario will be more positive than that of a few months ago.
-In the field of unmanned aircraft, what is Airbus’ penetration in that market in the region? And another consult about the FCAS (Future Combat Air System), although it is in the future and has no specific relationship with the region, I would like to know how you see the progress of this project and a small relationship with what is unmanned. We were seeing with the Loyal Wingman theme that Australia is developing with Boeing and others, a trend that in the most complex scenarios there is a network of unmanned aircraft operating in conjunction with a manned aircraft. Do you see this as a global trend? Do you see it as a very specific scenario? Does that adapt to the needs of the region that are quite particular in that sense?
Starting with the topic of unmanned vehicles Airbus has a European program that is under development, right now in its preliminary phase, which is the Eurodrone. In particular in Latin America we have a program called Atlante 2 and we are currently working with Colombia for the potential development of this system. This is an UAV (Unmaned Aerial Systems) and the idea is to develop it in cooperation between Spain-Colombia, government-government. What we would do is integrate the part of the Spanish European industry and then we would have participation of the Colombian industry.
As for the conversations, we are in a very critical phase because we have to decide very soon if the program goes ahead and we are having very high-level conversations, which shows two things. First, Airbus’ commitment to the region, because this is a UAV developed in cooperation with one of the Latin American countries, it is not a European product that we are transferring, but rather it is a development that we are doing in Latin America jointly and that can be translated into other forms, in other countries in the area. In other words, I consider that it is “translatable” to other similar projects in the region.
If we mention the FCAS, it is the key and most ambitious project that we have on the table within Airbus Defence and it is a project that will occupy us for the next decades. It implies a double change of games, first a more coherent and more integrated European defense policy is going to be made, and that is important when we talked previously about the possibility of replicating the concept of the MMF in Latin America, and it also makes there a stronger and more consolidated European defense. So you have a number of advantages already from the start, by industrial design and by political design, which are of great importance for Airbus, for the European industry and for the supply chain.
As for FCAS, what I would like to highlight is that it is not a next-generation aircraft, it is a combat system. They are two different things. The latest generation aircraft is integrated into this combat system. The development of the combat system is based on the network, in what we call cloud in the network, focused on the information with the Remote Carriers, what is a series of unmanned UAVs giuded and in that scenario is where we have to understand the development of this new combat aircraft.
Resuming, it is an aircraft in development, there will be a series of UAVs or Remote Carriers that will be flying and all of this is under the Air Combat Cloud, which is where information and connectivity flow and makes this system unbeatable and sophisticated. You will have real information in a second, the satellites will pass information to the network and at all times you will know the positioning of the enemy and how to move in those scenarios, even with the use of artificial intelligence. It is something that goes far beyond what is merely a development of a next-generation aircraft, which is already complicated.
What we have done so far was the signing of the Phase 1A contracts, which were signed in February. They are contracts that cover 5 demonstrators, one of them is for the new generation fighter aircraft, but there is also the Air Combat Cloud, the Remote Carrier and the engine itself. They are a series of elements that what is sought in this phase of the contract is to reduce technological risks as much as possible. Here we establish the bases on which we are going to build the pillars, technology and connectivity.
Regarding the translation of these systems to Latin America, for me the FCAS is a European system. I can see a Latin American system but it is not a system for one country exclusively. I understand FCAS in a context where European countries come together and work together in that type of system. I could see something similar in Latin America, but currently the politics that exists leads me to think that we are a bit far away. We need some important changes to achieve this unification of defense criteria in the region.
-As you may have seen from the Gripen program and Saab’s contract with Brazil, one of the main points of that contract had to do with the manufacture in Brazil of a large part of that fleet, becoming a solution center for the region in case there is another interested party. Beyond these considerations that you are working with Colombia in the case of the Eurofighter program or the Atlante, do you see any other industrial collaboration in the region of Airbus in addition to that?
It is one of the important parts that I want to develop during my time in this position. I understand that industrial cooperation is key in Latin America and I have in mind to see potential developments with the industry, we are talking about FADEA in Argentina and ENAER in Chile, to name some of them. What we have to find is the framework in which we can carry out this industrial development. The Saab case with the Gripen in Brazil is a scenario where this type of approach makes sense. We are looking, and for that we need the support of the governments, to be able to find this type of scenario that allows us to introduce the Latin American industry to the developments. We are totally open to them and hope to see significant developments in a fairly short period of time. And for that it is important that there is dynamism in the region and that purchases are made that allow us to justify these developments and that industrial collaboration.
The interview ended with Victor mentioning the company’s commitment to Latin America, commenting on its ambition to introduce in the region not only aircraft but also space and satellite products and expressing its desire to facilitate industrial cooperation scenarios.
We thank Airbus and Victor for their kindness and time.
